why teaching? why ESL? just a question

topic posted Tue, November 29, 2005 - 9:35 AM by  Mizztrish
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Hi all, new to this tribe. just been workin in Namibia for the past 4 years and some of that time i taught english- for the pay check... and I looked on this tribe- Almost all the posts are about teaching English. My career isn't in English Teaching but it seems (aside from my actual career which can only be done abroad) for short term work assignments (6mo-1year--2 yrs...) its all ESL and Tefel.

So for all those doing that- Why? do you like it? how do you feel about it? I really want to go to Thailand for a few months next year but the only jobs are teaching English. Not a big fan of the idea. just curious what people think about it.

(don't look at my post for gramatical errors please! lol.)

t.
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  • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

    Tue, November 29, 2005 - 10:03 PM
    For me? Its a paycheck, and I don't have a choice in the matter as I am married to the other owner of my school, he he. I do remember at one time, years ago, having this insane idea that I actually wanted to TEACH, thereby allowing a much greater flow of information to come to my students. However, at that time I didn't really understand xenophobia and jingoism. These days, its just "whatever it takes to keep the kids happy so they are quiet enough at home for their parents to keep sending them back." The reality is that exactly zero of my students will ever achieve fluency in any foreign language. They don't study and expect it to come by magic.

    Now. There are people like my mom who get advanced degrees in ESL and actually continue to bang their heads against the "I really wanna teach" wall. Stronger forhead than me.

    Of course, I'm just describing teaching in one country. I was honestly floored by the number of people in Thailand who spoke from passable to excellent English, which indicates that the students might actually be interested in learning there (you think I kid about Taiwan? The local elemetary school teacher decided it was too much trouble to actually TEACH, and simply handed the National Exam answers to her students to memorize).

    I don't know anyone who has taught in Thailand, but I was howling at the English Teacher jokes that one of the models (my real job is photographer) I was working with there told me (very funny, and just close enough to truth to put *me* in stitches, he he he).
    • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

      Wed, November 30, 2005 - 12:20 PM
      Exactly. I didn't teach anyone who really LEARNED English with me... it was more conversational and laid back when they did learn. Which is exactly how communication is taught or course. But I also learned SiLozi and Damara and Afrikaans in the same way (and equally as fast as some of my students and not nearly as fast as others who were emersed in it of course. The kids at the school I worked at spoke a mix of at least 7 languages and learned those better than English- but it was a boarding school with 300 kids and 4 matrons... they governed themselves... but thats an aside...)

      I just heard a statement once that rings in my head everytime i think of teaching English abroad cuz it is the fastest way to get a job overseas really. "If you want to beat the devil you got to talk like the devil." in relationship to teaching english everywhere. I dont' think its all THAT horrible but I do see a point. Why is it that its the fastest way to travel and make money in another country? you would think some other incredibly valuable SKILLS could be just as lucritive as teaching a room full of people who really could care less what you have to say on English. (I switched one of my classes to "life skills" which was still an English class but more topic baised and was geared toward life skills that helped prevent AIDS. it was much more effective where I was.)

      Any other thoughts though on the issue?
      • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

        Fri, December 16, 2005 - 8:18 PM
        Nice. So then I could change my class description to philosophical discourse... except, its in English.
        L
        • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

          Sat, December 17, 2005 - 9:50 AM
          hmmm... why teaching? i think maybe, because... teaching is an amazing skill that we all innately own. and in turn, learning is also a skill we all hold. in all things, in all aspects, we are learning and teaching always thru living...

          and language, wow... language can open doors, give opportunities, transcend planes of existence, make it possible for the world to communicate more fully, and above all, bring us all together to understand each other and our respective cultures and ideas. i think it is an amazing thing to give back to any community we decide to become a part of (which is what we do when we travel), and i do believe teaching is a positive way to do this.

          i have been a teacher in hawaii, and now, i teach in thailand. i feel as if it is an awesome experience, and loving it. though it requires hard work thru all the lesson planning, homework correcting, creating ways to really achieve comprehension in our students, language barriers, etc., it is truly rewarding in so many ways. i am laughing with my students and fully enjoying my lessons thru most days. and yes, in thailand, i feel as if many of my students really do want to learn and will speak fluently very soon. they are also teaching me thai, so we get to switch the teacher-student role around quite often.

          i am amazed at the world and how blessed we are when we decide to give a little back and see what can come of it. and i do believe this could be thru any number of skills, i guess that's the part we get to decide for ourselves. in what way do we want to give? for me, i feel as if teaching english in a foreign land is a way we can involve ourselves within cultures that hold teachers in such high regards, and grow from these intimate experiences with individual people who crave knowledge.

          it may be a different story for others, but possibly so many of us are drawn to teach, because we know that at all times, we are both student and teacher in the same moment.

          *if anyone needs info about teaching over here, tribe me up and i'll give you any knowledge i own*

          much love, aloha
          *j*
      • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

        Fri, December 23, 2005 - 9:28 AM
        teach English to learn, totravel, toexchange ideas, to liv esomewhere else to learn

        Or work harder adn save more money and have less tiem for vacation and less tiem to really appreciate your travel time.

        It is really what you value. Time or tiem? Personally I love to interact with others inother countries adn I make choices about how I spend my money and tiem. I hoep some day I will have more income here so I can be gone longer. I volunteer when I am in another country as I hav eonly a short time. I have not made the sacrifice to put things in storage to spend months away for a few years. Now, with an aging cat who hides from everyone except me.. I am unsure what/when I will be traveling for except short periods of time.

        Go! Travel.. decide how long you wish to be gone.. you can find a variety of situations which will allow you to lengthen your stay.. teaching English or not.

        Note to the pessimistic poster.. I wish you more love in your life.
        • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

          Fri, December 30, 2005 - 5:42 AM
          One person's pessimism is another's reality. Until a person has direct experience with rural Taiwan its impossible to really even conceive of it.

          I have plenty of love in my life, just not from the people who I'm surrounded by most of the time :-).

          And! The wonderful thing is that its looking like a sideline business is going to allow me to leave teaching and eventually go somewhere more suited to my looney personality. Patience.

          And I wish I were the exception to the rule here, but talk to anyone who has taught here for 3-4 years or more (Taipei excepted) and you'll find very similar views. I really DO wish that I was a single solitary lunatic in the dark, but there are a lot of us. Taiwan chews up foreign workers then spits them out, just the way life is here.
          • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

            Wed, January 4, 2006 - 5:03 AM
            I agree with the xenophobia analysis and also the treatment of foreign workers overseas particularly Taiwan and Korea. I've seen the best and the worst of it. I've been angry and touched and laughed and cried and that's why I'm here.

            I too came for the paycheck and to travel a bit but also to teach - and not just English. We all have opinions about people and countries formed by our experiences when we work here but in Korea where I am working, the sighting of a foreigner is still enough to stop them in the street with their mouths hanging open. They don't know what to make of us and their opinions of us and our countries are being formed by our behaviour. These beautiful kids are the travellers of the future and I want to let them know that our countries are great too, yeah there are some @ssholes who will do them wrong (same as here) but there are also a lot of people worth knowing and a lot of places worth going.

            I asked my 6 year old kids the other day what it's like in Africa and the general concensus was that the people are all black and live in the jungle eating bugs. They were fascinated when I told them otherwise. I love teaching English and I don't expect my kids to be speaking fluently any time...well, ever. But I want to leave them with open minds and an interest in the world and I love every minute of it!
            • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

              Wed, January 4, 2006 - 5:50 AM
              Awesome Suzanne. that is the perfect mentality one should have when seeking a career in TEFL.

              I really dislike my job (IT - Telecommunications), I feel it holds no purpose and am making no difference in the world, hence im doing a TEFL course soon and hopefully with some luck (as I hold no Varsity degree), I'll be able to get employement in Eastern Europe or the Far East or even South America, teaching english and making a real difference in the world.

              a small difference but a difference none the less.
              • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

                Thu, January 5, 2006 - 3:14 AM
                That's great! I hope you find an excellent job and go to some great places and meet many more good people than @ssholes!!
                • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

                  Sat, January 21, 2006 - 9:00 AM
                  Don't have a choice. Basically it's about flattering people's xenophobia, they need somebody to hate and blame for their troubles. All these goddamn ESL schools are a bunch of crooked scum. AND I DON'T NEED SOME WORKING TOURIST WANTS TO SEE AND EXPERIENCE OTHER CULTURES MORALISING TO ME TELL ME I HAVE A BAD ATTITUDE.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

                    Thu, February 9, 2006 - 6:18 AM
                    It must be a hard life to be enslaved into a job against your will only to be blamed for the worlds troubles AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE OTHER PEOPLES OPINIONS, DON'T READ THEM/IMAGINE THEY ARE DIRECTED ONLY AT YOU/REPLY AS IF THEY WERE DIRECTED AT YOU WITH SOME SELF-PITYING CRAP - just a thought from your friendly world travelling, experience loving happy tourist......bad attitude? whoever would have said such a thing....
                    • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

                      Tue, February 14, 2006 - 6:42 AM
                      what it's too much to expect from an employer that they obey local laws? Especially if you're not a tourist but probably living in the country for the rest of your life and a citizen there. Keep turning out your propaganda miss disinformation agent.
                      • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

                        Wed, February 15, 2006 - 4:29 AM
                        No, it's not too much to expect at all and I know that some people have a horrible time when they leave home to work overseas, but that doesn't mean the whole ESL industry all over the world is a corrupt conspiracy of slave traders waiting to get their claws into you so they can use you as a scapegoat and generally make your life miserable!

                        I think you need to come out of your bubble and look around you, there are some great jobs and great people out there. If you don't like what you're doing, move on and find something better, don't sit there generalising everything and feeling sorry for yourself and angry at the world!
  • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

    Sat, January 21, 2006 - 10:54 AM
    Just so somebody actually says it: you are not doing people a favour by teaching english, this is not a great act of kindness on your part, you are getting paid for it.

    If you don't like it don't do it, because the odds are people on the other side can tell that you don't like it.
    If you are good at it (I love the "teaching is innate" comment) by all mean do it because there is a real shortage of people actually good at it.
    If you enjoy it, then please do it because a lot, ifnot most, people who teach ESL are travellers who are broke, have no interest in teaching, and only ease their boredom by exploring once again their sense of superiority to both the locals and the people who stayed home.

    Only english speakers would think that getting their travels paid by teaching english are doing something good to improve people's lives!!!!!!

    Don't get me wrong I don't think that there is anything wrong with teaching ESL (which by the way is seldom people SECOND language because most people in the world that weren't raised with english as their first language speak at least one other language) but let's call it what it is, it is a job and occasionally it makes it to being a career.

    I know this is coming across as really harsh, but really.... Unless you are actually a trained teacher or at least somebody dedicated to the task and interested in the actual "teaching" aspect of the task, it is just a job and not a career.
    I do know that there are career ESL teachers out there, and I do know that some of them are good, some of them are even good people and actually make a difference in their students life.

    But, hey, you must know who you are, right?
    • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

      Sat, January 21, 2006 - 12:28 PM
      It's not so much these the employees but these ESL companies. They're completely crooked. They don't have any respect for local laws and regulations. People who let themselves get exploited by them are contributing to a degredation of the working conditions in the country they're passing through. The companies will recrute all they can from anywhere in the world looking specificaly for candidates unlikely to be aware of local work codes so they can take advantage of them. If you are a native English speaker and you find yourself unemployed in some countries they'll tell you why not get a job teaching English. This is because these companies are required to place a demand with the unemployement office before getting work papers from someone. They don't actually want to hire somebody who's on unemployment because they won't be able to treat any way they want. So you could find yourself on another continent citizen of another country being ripped off and prevented from obtaining any other kind of job by a cult like criminal educational organisation from the country you were born in.
      • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

        Mon, January 30, 2006 - 11:10 AM
        glad I posted this.
        this is getting interesting. (i kinda totally forgot I posted it a while back.)

        some awesome posts commin up here. (I find it funny I was called a pessimist by a "friend" lol. yep- some times my realisim is pessimistic... sorry. I've met A LOT of "aid" workers. From a LOT of places. I get a bit jaded.)

        Hell, I used the "I'm teaching English" route to employment and donor funds in the past. I've gotten a few free trips to wonderful places on it. But i didn't kid myself, I did't pretend I was doing a service or charity when it was clearly a good trade- because i OFTEN teach much more than some English - but thats cuz I teach other things better than English- its just easier to call it whatever people would pay for. Elephant Conservation Training wasn't as concrete- but it did work and now CITIES gets thier reports finally and maybe Namibia can start claiming and selling some of that Legal Ivory someday. (another sensitive topic I won't get into here.)

        I have met some Amazing English teachers. I have known some host country nationals who learned and improved their performance at work etc. because of and ESL class. I know this is great. Its also great to travel to some beautiful, safe, cheep, place where one can have a maid, and a beach and a security guard and where you get paid for a less than 40 hour work week and get to say your helping out. It can be win win when you don't think too deeply about it.

        I think I see where some of the posters here HAVE thought more deeply about it. And thats What I'm getting at...

        There are alternatives to teaching ESL and still living the life... I just like to see why people choose teaching and ESL. and what internal delema's they may have about that choice.

        1 luv all. t.
        • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

          Wed, February 15, 2006 - 1:11 PM
          What do you all think about the idea that English is arguably the language with the most ethnically and culturally diverse group of native(or virtually native) speakers on the planet? I would say this while at the same time liberally accepting some of the relatively "deviant" "dialects" that make up English. There is also a significant amount literature that has been translated in English that is not available in any other language. I'm just saying that the least you could say is that learning English can enhance the lives of those who do. Given that, you could say of ESL teachers that they do provide a service that brings joy and enlightenment to their "customers" which is more than you can say for a lot of professions out there. Obviously anyone who doesn't care about the quality of the job they do is a heathen and a jerkoff, be they an ESL teacher, architect or garbageman.
          • Re: why teaching? why ESL? just a question

            Wed, February 15, 2006 - 7:59 PM
            Learning any language bounds to enhance somebodys life. And you are right of all languages english has the advantage of not only being comparatively fairly simple but also very useful. However I really do not beleive that teaching english is an act of charity or human kindness...unless of course you were to volunteer and do it for free...in which case teaching anything is an act of kindness.

            I really do think that native english speaker who are using teaching ESL as a way of traveling should call it what it is.
            I usually really don't care one way or the other but reading this thread and reading the part about "making a real difference" just got me gagging!

            Getting paid to teach english, I repeat, is not an act of kindness!!!!!!!!

            "....teach english to learn, to travel, to exchange ideas, to live somewhere else....." seem like a much better attitude and a more genuine approach which in the long run seems more likely to ended up in true acts of kindness untarnished by condescending crap.

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